What Makes a Good PVPer?
Someone on my guild (Pathos Hammer) posts asked a good question: What makes a good PVPer?
He really wanted to show that there's no actual "pvp skill," but that everyone could succeed at pvp. I partially agree. I think everyone can improve in pvp, but there are variables many of us just can't adjust in order to excel at pvp. Here's the response I gave:
Let me dissect the issue first. Let's take a computer AI. Take, for example, two human AI rogues, built exactly the same way, same level, same stats, same gear. Everything is exactly the same. Now have the computer make them duel. Who will win? Is it 50/50? Yes. Why? The laws of statistics tell you it's 50/50. It has to be. It's literally random because both opponents will have exactly the same code to draw from and have exactly the same chance of winning each fight.
But. What really happens? Who knows. Rogue A might win 9 out of 10 times. Anyone know what the odds are that the rogue will win the next match? If you answered 50/50, you're right. Just because one has consistently won doesn't mean the odds change. The chance stays the same.
But that's a computer. Now take those same exact human rogues and let two real live people play them. Oboy! The factors involved now are insanely complicated and absolutely impossible to fully determine. But let's have at a few before we start into "good" and "bad" pvp skills.
First, and unfortunately one of the most fundamental factors since the advent of computer-based pvp, is which player has a slower connection (i.e., more latency). This factor is compounded by a number of things: cpu speed, computer memory, hard drive speed, hard drive I/O, graphics card, video settings, sound card/settings (better believe it, I've won matches and defended flags by using sound! (sit in the WSG flag room and listen... you can actually HEAR enemies dismount upstairs coming from the ramp to the middle section)), ethernet card, router, modem, Internet connection, ISP speed/reliability, distance from WoW hub server, number of other players accessing that hub server, and many more subtle factors. You might think, aw, that's BS! But I've been playing pvp for years and years, starting with serial connections between pcs, 300 baud dial-up modems, and beyond, and I'll tell you, the difference between a 100 and 400 latency is the difference between 1st and 4th place in the Olympics (depending on what game you're playing, of course).
Second: Gear. Not in-game gear, but real gear. Player using a N52? A cordless mouse (which adds its own latency), a low or high-tech keyboard? A fuzzy monitor, or top of the line? How is the person's desk set up? Laptop while sitting up in bed? PVP combat control room desk setup? Something in between? Each of these characteristics comes into play during combat, and is often ignored and overlooked by many players. How many times have you tried to turn 180 degrees, and your mouse hits your keyboard, and you instinctively lift it up, reset it, and move it again? That, friends, takes time and effort. Each of these factors has an impact on your ability to stay in control in pvp.
Third: Physiology. Needless to say (but apparently needed here), assuming both players have the exact same technology, there's a chance one of them taps the right sequence of keys just a bit faster or more correctly than the other. One will get that timing just right, while the other is off. Sure, with a couple of decent players, they may trade off on who gets that gouge in first, when both go for it simultaneously. What makes the better pvper? Consistency. What else? Ability to stay in control of the I/O (keyboard, mouse, etc.) while under stress: you get sweaty hands? constantly hit the wrong key? use a lot of point and click on your hotbars instead of setting up macros? Another physical factor is more basic: have you had enough sleep? Studies show that sleepy drivers are more dangerous than drunk ones, and cause just as many highway accidents. What's that tell you about your in-game reaction time based on sleep deprivation? Nutrition? Other health habits? Although there are raver kids out there, high on Jolt, beating the crap out of everyone in pvp, it's all part of the factor.
Fourth: Mental state. Had a stressful day at work? With the kids? With anything? Having your subconscious nag at you while trying to pvp can be a killer.
Fifth: Knowledge. Are you playing a game for the first time? Playing a class for the first time? Just reset your talent points? Just changed all your gear? Just advanced into a new level bracket? How much do you know about your opponent? Did you know that orcs are resistant to stuns? Do you know what all of your enemies' pvp trinkets do? Did you know that different classes get different types of pvp trinkets? Include in this factor "perception." Have you counted to yourself the number of seconds since that undead priest cast psychic scream? If not, how will you know when he'll be able to do it again? Better pvpers culminate a collection of knowledge about the game, characters, and gear, and their own observations of the actions of opponents while playing.
Sixth: Experience. If all you ever played before WoW was Starcraft, you might be great at setting up overall strategies and executing them, but you might not be so great at being able to turn constantly to face a slippery rogue, intent on getting a backstab in. By my count, I've had about 21 years of pvp experience, which includes all forms of pvp: DnD and other tabletop games, computerized jet fighter combat games, real life combat simulation games (such as lasertag, paintball, and SCA), all varieties of modern pvp games (quake, quake TF, unreal, cs, uo, swg, coh, etc.), and ten years of Marine Corps training and experience. I'm not saying I'm the best pvper out there. I get my butt kicked all the time. But I'm the type who can tell you exactly why I got my butt kicked. Exactly what I did wrong each time, and I often return the favor the next time around, having learned from my mistakes.
Seventh: Luck. Only the unlucky hate luck. I can't stand it. Luck is what makes one AI vs AI win 9 times out of 10, even though there's a 50/50 chance every round. Luck is what makes your gouge miss three times in a row. Luck is what gets you killed in two hits, or saves your life at the last possible second. Luck is something that cannot be calculated or relied upon. Just hope you're lucky.
Eighth: Percentiles. Some might throw this in with "luck." It doesn't belong there, because luck, by definition, cannot be improved. What can be improved is chance. We started off with the basic template of AI vs AI having the exact same stats. But what if one got a +1% to dodge item instead? Does that automatically make him win each round? Not by far. But does it change the 50/50 chance? YES. It does. By definition, it must. It might be by less than 1%, considering all the factors involved, but it's an advantage that cannot be overlooked. "Good" pvpers (or at least the wary ones) will research and implement as much as possible gear that increases those odds in that person's favor. The mere fact that someone happened to have acquired some of that gear and equipped it does not mean that player is a "good" pvper. Not by far. Gear, in itself, does not make anyone a "good" pvper. It merely gives that person a better chance that something will happen in that person's favor. This includes having stocks of potions, scrolls, and other buffs.
Ninth: Build. This came close to falling under knowledge, but I felt it needed its own category. The more you've played a particular class, and the more you've studied it, the more you will know about what talent builds are effective for you. You probably won't really find one that's best until you've reached level 60, which is why most talent guides out there are based on that level, but there are plenty of resources out there with vast amounts of information and statistics about each talent and each build. Some will say to start out with a cookie-cutter build, and go from there. Others will say just put points in what you use anyway. There's no real answer except that the best pvpers really know how not to waste these precious points on stuff they don't need or won't use. And, they use these skills all the time, with the determination to win each fight.
Tenth: Nature. You're not going to like this one, but it can't be helped. Although I'm a firm believer that everyone can become better at pvp, I'm also quite confident that not everyone can be the best at pvp. Whether or not you interpret either to mean "good" at pvp is up to you, but in every human pursuit, there are always people who are better and people who are not so better. In other words, if you've maxed out 1-9 above, and you're still not kicking pvp butt, then you might just be at your max. At least in the game you're playing. I know some people who rule in one game, and get beat miserably in another, even though the games are very similar.
This doesn't mean you should hang up your sword, though. The nice thing about WoW, as well as most MMORP games is that much combat relies on teamwork. If you've noticed, most of what I've said so far seems centered around the individual. It is. It's mostly a "how can I improve my individual pvp ability?" guide. However, there's an additional set of factors that apply to group pvp combat. Even if you're totally lousy at individual pvp, you could be one of the best team supporters ever.
Team pvp factors should start with the 1-10 above. To be a good teammate, you should know your class as much as possible. Perhaps you're not a "natural," but if you know your class and you know your teammates' classes, you're much better off. I'm not going to list the team-based factors here, but if you follow what's above, you should be able to figure it out.
There are many factors you can probably think of to add to the list, and, heck, you should mention them in the comments. But my space and time are limited, so I spouted out the first "top ten" that came to mind.
[post script: someone near and dear to me commented (unfortunately not here) that I should include "common sense" into the factors list. I partially agree. I actually think it's already there, as the ability to perform most of the factors decently. I perceive "common sense" in two ways. First, "a culmination of certain bits of helpful knowledge that the majority of people in the society in which you live possess." I think this is what most people are really talking about when they say, "Hey, boy, you ain't got no common sense!" If you lack this type of common sense, you are often deemed "out of it" by other members of society who are "in the know." It's not just straight knowledge, but a certain demeanor, and it's impossible to infuse someone with this type of common sense, but apparently it exists. In my above factors, this would be the culmination of bits of knowledge and experience from most or all of the categories in such a way that you "fit in," perhaps even better than most. I'm not sure, though, that having common sense makes someone a "good" or even "better" pvper, but lacking it certainly hurts one's chances. My second common sense definition focuses more on the "sense." It's one's ability to perceive, interpret, and act upon sensations. Yes, this refers to your "common senses" - seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, and smelling. It's my firm belief that some people can "fake" having the first type of common sense by focusing on the second type of common sense. In other words, if you're more observant of your surroundings, and you can manifest efficient reaction to those observations, then you appear "keen," and "aware." Not bad things. This type of common sense is embodied in a combination between Physiology and Knowledge. It's really the intent or ability to be a good observer, and the link between those observations and your physical ability to act upon them. So, in essence, I'm saying that I've embedded common sense in my factors without explicitly saying so. Till now. :) ]
And that is what makes a "good" pvper.
Full Article
He really wanted to show that there's no actual "pvp skill," but that everyone could succeed at pvp. I partially agree. I think everyone can improve in pvp, but there are variables many of us just can't adjust in order to excel at pvp. Here's the response I gave:
Let me dissect the issue first. Let's take a computer AI. Take, for example, two human AI rogues, built exactly the same way, same level, same stats, same gear. Everything is exactly the same. Now have the computer make them duel. Who will win? Is it 50/50? Yes. Why? The laws of statistics tell you it's 50/50. It has to be. It's literally random because both opponents will have exactly the same code to draw from and have exactly the same chance of winning each fight.
But. What really happens? Who knows. Rogue A might win 9 out of 10 times. Anyone know what the odds are that the rogue will win the next match? If you answered 50/50, you're right. Just because one has consistently won doesn't mean the odds change. The chance stays the same.
But that's a computer. Now take those same exact human rogues and let two real live people play them. Oboy! The factors involved now are insanely complicated and absolutely impossible to fully determine. But let's have at a few before we start into "good" and "bad" pvp skills.
First, and unfortunately one of the most fundamental factors since the advent of computer-based pvp, is which player has a slower connection (i.e., more latency). This factor is compounded by a number of things: cpu speed, computer memory, hard drive speed, hard drive I/O, graphics card, video settings, sound card/settings (better believe it, I've won matches and defended flags by using sound! (sit in the WSG flag room and listen... you can actually HEAR enemies dismount upstairs coming from the ramp to the middle section)), ethernet card, router, modem, Internet connection, ISP speed/reliability, distance from WoW hub server, number of other players accessing that hub server, and many more subtle factors. You might think, aw, that's BS! But I've been playing pvp for years and years, starting with serial connections between pcs, 300 baud dial-up modems, and beyond, and I'll tell you, the difference between a 100 and 400 latency is the difference between 1st and 4th place in the Olympics (depending on what game you're playing, of course).
Second: Gear. Not in-game gear, but real gear. Player using a N52? A cordless mouse (which adds its own latency), a low or high-tech keyboard? A fuzzy monitor, or top of the line? How is the person's desk set up? Laptop while sitting up in bed? PVP combat control room desk setup? Something in between? Each of these characteristics comes into play during combat, and is often ignored and overlooked by many players. How many times have you tried to turn 180 degrees, and your mouse hits your keyboard, and you instinctively lift it up, reset it, and move it again? That, friends, takes time and effort. Each of these factors has an impact on your ability to stay in control in pvp.
Third: Physiology. Needless to say (but apparently needed here), assuming both players have the exact same technology, there's a chance one of them taps the right sequence of keys just a bit faster or more correctly than the other. One will get that timing just right, while the other is off. Sure, with a couple of decent players, they may trade off on who gets that gouge in first, when both go for it simultaneously. What makes the better pvper? Consistency. What else? Ability to stay in control of the I/O (keyboard, mouse, etc.) while under stress: you get sweaty hands? constantly hit the wrong key? use a lot of point and click on your hotbars instead of setting up macros? Another physical factor is more basic: have you had enough sleep? Studies show that sleepy drivers are more dangerous than drunk ones, and cause just as many highway accidents. What's that tell you about your in-game reaction time based on sleep deprivation? Nutrition? Other health habits? Although there are raver kids out there, high on Jolt, beating the crap out of everyone in pvp, it's all part of the factor.
Fourth: Mental state. Had a stressful day at work? With the kids? With anything? Having your subconscious nag at you while trying to pvp can be a killer.
Fifth: Knowledge. Are you playing a game for the first time? Playing a class for the first time? Just reset your talent points? Just changed all your gear? Just advanced into a new level bracket? How much do you know about your opponent? Did you know that orcs are resistant to stuns? Do you know what all of your enemies' pvp trinkets do? Did you know that different classes get different types of pvp trinkets? Include in this factor "perception." Have you counted to yourself the number of seconds since that undead priest cast psychic scream? If not, how will you know when he'll be able to do it again? Better pvpers culminate a collection of knowledge about the game, characters, and gear, and their own observations of the actions of opponents while playing.
Sixth: Experience. If all you ever played before WoW was Starcraft, you might be great at setting up overall strategies and executing them, but you might not be so great at being able to turn constantly to face a slippery rogue, intent on getting a backstab in. By my count, I've had about 21 years of pvp experience, which includes all forms of pvp: DnD and other tabletop games, computerized jet fighter combat games, real life combat simulation games (such as lasertag, paintball, and SCA), all varieties of modern pvp games (quake, quake TF, unreal, cs, uo, swg, coh, etc.), and ten years of Marine Corps training and experience. I'm not saying I'm the best pvper out there. I get my butt kicked all the time. But I'm the type who can tell you exactly why I got my butt kicked. Exactly what I did wrong each time, and I often return the favor the next time around, having learned from my mistakes.
Seventh: Luck. Only the unlucky hate luck. I can't stand it. Luck is what makes one AI vs AI win 9 times out of 10, even though there's a 50/50 chance every round. Luck is what makes your gouge miss three times in a row. Luck is what gets you killed in two hits, or saves your life at the last possible second. Luck is something that cannot be calculated or relied upon. Just hope you're lucky.
Eighth: Percentiles. Some might throw this in with "luck." It doesn't belong there, because luck, by definition, cannot be improved. What can be improved is chance. We started off with the basic template of AI vs AI having the exact same stats. But what if one got a +1% to dodge item instead? Does that automatically make him win each round? Not by far. But does it change the 50/50 chance? YES. It does. By definition, it must. It might be by less than 1%, considering all the factors involved, but it's an advantage that cannot be overlooked. "Good" pvpers (or at least the wary ones) will research and implement as much as possible gear that increases those odds in that person's favor. The mere fact that someone happened to have acquired some of that gear and equipped it does not mean that player is a "good" pvper. Not by far. Gear, in itself, does not make anyone a "good" pvper. It merely gives that person a better chance that something will happen in that person's favor. This includes having stocks of potions, scrolls, and other buffs.
Ninth: Build. This came close to falling under knowledge, but I felt it needed its own category. The more you've played a particular class, and the more you've studied it, the more you will know about what talent builds are effective for you. You probably won't really find one that's best until you've reached level 60, which is why most talent guides out there are based on that level, but there are plenty of resources out there with vast amounts of information and statistics about each talent and each build. Some will say to start out with a cookie-cutter build, and go from there. Others will say just put points in what you use anyway. There's no real answer except that the best pvpers really know how not to waste these precious points on stuff they don't need or won't use. And, they use these skills all the time, with the determination to win each fight.
Tenth: Nature. You're not going to like this one, but it can't be helped. Although I'm a firm believer that everyone can become better at pvp, I'm also quite confident that not everyone can be the best at pvp. Whether or not you interpret either to mean "good" at pvp is up to you, but in every human pursuit, there are always people who are better and people who are not so better. In other words, if you've maxed out 1-9 above, and you're still not kicking pvp butt, then you might just be at your max. At least in the game you're playing. I know some people who rule in one game, and get beat miserably in another, even though the games are very similar.
This doesn't mean you should hang up your sword, though. The nice thing about WoW, as well as most MMORP games is that much combat relies on teamwork. If you've noticed, most of what I've said so far seems centered around the individual. It is. It's mostly a "how can I improve my individual pvp ability?" guide. However, there's an additional set of factors that apply to group pvp combat. Even if you're totally lousy at individual pvp, you could be one of the best team supporters ever.
Team pvp factors should start with the 1-10 above. To be a good teammate, you should know your class as much as possible. Perhaps you're not a "natural," but if you know your class and you know your teammates' classes, you're much better off. I'm not going to list the team-based factors here, but if you follow what's above, you should be able to figure it out.
There are many factors you can probably think of to add to the list, and, heck, you should mention them in the comments. But my space and time are limited, so I spouted out the first "top ten" that came to mind.
[post script: someone near and dear to me commented (unfortunately not here) that I should include "common sense" into the factors list. I partially agree. I actually think it's already there, as the ability to perform most of the factors decently. I perceive "common sense" in two ways. First, "a culmination of certain bits of helpful knowledge that the majority of people in the society in which you live possess." I think this is what most people are really talking about when they say, "Hey, boy, you ain't got no common sense!" If you lack this type of common sense, you are often deemed "out of it" by other members of society who are "in the know." It's not just straight knowledge, but a certain demeanor, and it's impossible to infuse someone with this type of common sense, but apparently it exists. In my above factors, this would be the culmination of bits of knowledge and experience from most or all of the categories in such a way that you "fit in," perhaps even better than most. I'm not sure, though, that having common sense makes someone a "good" or even "better" pvper, but lacking it certainly hurts one's chances. My second common sense definition focuses more on the "sense." It's one's ability to perceive, interpret, and act upon sensations. Yes, this refers to your "common senses" - seeing, hearing, tasting, feeling, and smelling. It's my firm belief that some people can "fake" having the first type of common sense by focusing on the second type of common sense. In other words, if you're more observant of your surroundings, and you can manifest efficient reaction to those observations, then you appear "keen," and "aware." Not bad things. This type of common sense is embodied in a combination between Physiology and Knowledge. It's really the intent or ability to be a good observer, and the link between those observations and your physical ability to act upon them. So, in essence, I'm saying that I've embedded common sense in my factors without explicitly saying so. Till now. :) ]
And that is what makes a "good" pvper.
Full Article
posted by Psyae at 4:40 PM
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